Route 666

[00:00:00] It's summer. You know what that means. Summer vacation. Some of you will be camping under the stars, enjoying the many lakes and beaches, riding coasters at a theme park, or having a hot dog and enjoying a baseball game.

[00:00:17] But here at No Such Thing as Ghosts, we're going to pack our bags and load up the station wagon, because we're taking a good old-fashioned road trip down Route 491. The nearly 194-mile route spans from Gallup, New Mexico, through Colorado, and ends in Monticello, Utah.

[00:00:37] On this trip, there won't be any world's largest ball of twine sightings, but don't worry, there won't be a dull moment. We need to make sure to leave early, because once the UAPs cover the night sky, we're sure to lose some time.

[00:00:51] Check the spare, because the hellhounds love the taste of rubber. You will never be lonely, because there are plenty of phantom hitchhikers to liven up our trip. Always slow down and let the mysterious speeding vehicle pass on the left, and be careful not to utter the names of Native American legends. We wouldn't want it following us home. Buckle up. We're ready to head down the Devil's Highway, Route 666.

[00:02:12] Welcome to the Such Thing as Ghosts Podcast. My name is Greg. You just heard Andy in the intro, talking about some kind of paranormal road trip. Correct. This would be Route 491, originally designated Route 666. Hmm. Creepy. So, if it's your first time listening, I am a hardline skeptic. Andy, how would you best describe yourself? I'm a big fan. He's a big fan. Didn't like that one.

[00:02:40] I loved it. No, it's great. I was just laughing because it was funny. Okay, so, tell us more about Route 666. So, it started out with that designation. In 1926, the government wanted to organize some of these major roads that really weren't cataloged very well.

[00:03:04] This had been a travel way or a road before this, but, you know, it started out as, you know, it's in Navajo land, so they used it as a trail. Eventually, it became a, you know, a roadway out there, and it does cross the also infamous Route 66, which I know you've probably heard of, which traveled from Chicago out to L.A., so going east to west.

[00:03:34] This road travels north to south and intersects that. It is the sixth major auxiliary road to cross Route 66, therefore the designation Route 666. Gotcha. Now, obviously, that number has other connotations that the government was not thinking of when they named it. So, we'll get into how that comes in, you know, a little bit as we go along.

[00:04:02] But where this route goes through Route 66, at the time, it was 141 miles and ran from Route 66 up to Gallup, New Mexico. So, at the time, Route 666 was 141 miles and it ran from Route 66 to Gallup, New Mexico, north through the Navajo lands, and it ended in Cortez, Colorado at the time. In 1942, it was extended south through Arizona and all the way down to the Mexican border.

[00:04:32] At this point, that was really the only problem section of the route. There was 120 miles from Springerville to Clifton, Arizona, and there were 460 turns in that just little stretch. And then it was a 5,500-foot drop in elevation from one end to the other. Wow. Okay. So, they called it Arizona's Roller Coaster and, you know, wrecks all over the place, you know, all kinds of trouble going up and down there.

[00:05:00] And finally, Arizona was the first one. They were the first area to rename the route. That was in 1992. They changed it to US-191. A little bit of the stigma probably came in with the 666. Yeah. They claimed the main issue was they could not post the Route 666 signs back quick enough because they were all being stolen. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.

[00:05:24] It was then extended to the north to where we have now in Monticello, Utah. This is the part that started gaining the Route 666 lore. There were all kinds of wrecks through here. Of course, legends all over the place from Native Americans.

[00:05:47] And then other people started seeing, you know, weird along the route and associated with those bad accidents. Then, in 2003, New Mexico Governor Bill Richardson got with Colorado and Utah's governors, and they finally agreed to renumber their section to Route 491. And according to a New York Times article, they were saved a whole lot of time because there were no road signs. Nothing left.

[00:06:17] On that entire stretch. They were all gone. So, now, you know, we're up to present day. You know, pretty much anything you can think of paranormal has been spotted up and down this road. And, if you name it, we probably could find a story about it. Wow. Okay. It's really gained some legendary status.

[00:06:42] Now, there is a story about it that is on film. Oh. That is not your events. Oh, okay. It is the 2001 feature film Route 666 starring Stephen Williams, Lori Petty, and Lou Diamond Phillips. Oh, wow. Okay. Star-studded cast. I mean, I guess. Yeah. What year did that come out again? 2001. 2001? Not, I don't think, in 2001, they were necessarily.

[00:07:13] Probably a little bit. Was this a direct-to-video kind of movie? I believe so. Yeah, that's what it sounds like. Lou Diamond Phillips didn't have the drawing power that Lou Diamond Phillips had. This was past Young Guns. Yeah, yeah. So, that's over. That's about all Lou Diamond Phillips had. That and maybe a TV show here or there. Yeah, he had some. Some TV specials and stuff. Who's Steve Williams? Steven Williams. Steven Williams. He was in Jason Goes to Hell.

[00:07:41] And he had a recurring role on the X-Files. Okay. He was fairly big in the 90s. I'll show you the trailer. Okay. Yeah. You'll know him when you see him. Gotcha. I've watched the trailer. That was terrible. That was very bad. If you like very bad movies, this is a very good, very bad movie. I just recently watched it. It looks like total garbage. It is a mess. Yep. Really bad. Man.

[00:08:11] Lori Petty. Lori Petty was in a bunch of stuff for a while. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And really, her career just tanked, didn't it? Like, Lou Diamond Phillips never was in. He was in, like, maybe two big movies. Lori Petty was, like, an it girl for a while. She was in a lot of big movies. I was going to say, when you said her career tanked, was that a compliment? Oh, tank girl? Tank girl? Yeah. That was the beginning of the end for her. And I don't mind tank girl.

[00:08:40] I don't dislike tank girl. No. It did not do well. And then after that, she just didn't really have anything, did she? Yeah. I don't think there was much after that. Anyway, why are we talking about that? And I did recognize Stephen Williams when I saw him. Man, that was bad. That was a really bad, really bad dream. And so, that movie, it's not actually the same road. They, like, they nicknamed, because that is actually at the end of Route 666 in the movie.

[00:09:09] And like I said, this is out in the, you know, in the Colorado, New Mexico, Utah area. So, the movie is a little bit different. You should have waited to watch this movie. Well. We could have done a Patreon episode of watching the movie. We can still do that. Yeah, but you ruined it. You watched, well, you've watched all these crappy movies to begin with. So, most of these things that are associated with this stuff.

[00:09:38] There's a lot of things that I bring up that I've already seen. Yeah. And then when we just start doing random things, I'm probably going to have seen at least half of them. Right. Yeah. You do watch a lot of garbage. That's one thing I will say. Like I said, this is a, it's a pretty good, bad movie. I don't, okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. All right. It's not a great movie by any means. So, that movie's about zombies. Is there a lot of. Well, it's not really about zombies. They're, they're ghosts. They're ghost zombie. They're, yeah. They look like zombies.

[00:10:07] They looked like zombies. I thought it was zombies, but. It wasn't. They're clearly ghosts when you get into the story. I don't want to spoil it for you. No, don't do that. I don't want to spoil it for anybody else who hadn't watched it. It's a 25 year old movie. I mean, it's still in its prime. That's right. It's still, it's still out there making money for Lou Diamond Phillips. I mean, yeah. So, we've gotten past the, you know, the fascinating transportation department stuff. And.

[00:10:38] Yeah, that was, I really enjoyed that to be completely honest. No, I mean. That was, that was, I feel like that's going to be the most interesting part of it for me. But go ahead. So, let's get to the true paranormal events that occur on this road. Where my interest wanes. Can we talk more about like, like zoning and. I can, we can. How, how long stretches of roads, especially straight roads. Do you know there's more accidents on straight roads than there are on curved roads? Oh, very nice information.

[00:11:06] Yeah, because the thing is like the, like drivers start to just kind of, there's, there's nothing for them to, yeah, they zone out. They do whatever. And they're driving in a straight line. Those big stretches of, of roads that are straight. There's a lot of accidents because you become complacent as you drive. I'm just driving forward. You get distracted. You do whatever. You, maybe a nod off. Turns keep you on your toes while you're driving. You know, I've got to make a turn here. I've got to make a turn here. Those big stretches are really where true accidents happen.

[00:11:35] It actually makes sense. Yeah. But this one, you said there was a, you know, big change of elevation, a lot of turns. Well, that's on the, the, the newer part that is now technically not part of route 491. So it's not part we're going to discuss. Oh, okay. That was, that was just, that was redesignated early on. So it was originally part of route 666. That's the Arizona section going down to Mexico. Gotcha. Gotcha.

[00:12:01] And the section that we're going to talk about is part of, that is north of route 66. So is that mostly a straight shot? Uh, it's a little bit of both because you're going through, you know, some mountainous areas. Gotcha. You know, but it's not as drastic as that Southern section. Gotcha. Okay. Uh, the elevation is, I would assume pretty steady. I don't know the exact numbers on that one, but not the big decrease like it is in the Southern part. Gotcha. Okay.

[00:12:29] Let's get into the, the, so you talked about accidents. Let's start with, uh, some of the mysterious vehicles that are seen. Okay. And blamed for some of these accidents that occur. You're, you're on a long, long, dark stretch of road all by yourself. Sometimes this is just a big highway. Look around. There's no other cars around. It's just you driving through, you know, a completely deserted road. And all of a sudden some headlights will come up behind you.

[00:12:57] You should always keep an eye on your rear view mirror because the headlights could come out of nowhere. Oh. And if that happens, you might have an encounter with Satan's sedan. Okay. So what, what kind of sedan does Satan drive? Uh, it's described as a, just a large pitch black sedan. Okay. Like a Lincoln, like a Lincoln town car. I would think so. Yeah. All right.

[00:13:27] Like a, so blacked out Lincoln town. He's suicide, suicide doors on or something. I would imagine. Cool. So. That's pretty sweet. You know, they see the headlights coming up, they're moving at extremely high speeds and they close in on you quickly. Okay. And some who have watched him pass report, report that there's no car there. Just the lights pass you by. Just the headlights. Which could tie into something later. Okay.

[00:13:56] May not be, that may not be Satan's sedan. That might be something else. Okay. So. Sure. But, you know, they, they speed by you, whether it's a car, just the lights, and then they disappear into the distance. But sometimes, obviously, you know, you got a car speeding up on you causes an accident, you know, it runs you off of the road. Sometimes they say it purposely runs you off the road.

[00:14:23] Uh, I guess, you know, sometimes that actually happens to people and they, you know, try to get a good look at who is this that ran me off the road. And of course, who's there? Satan himself. Satan himself, baby. Yeah. Or at least some kind of. He's got nothing else. Demonic looking figure. He's got nothing else going on. He can at least make somebody's day inconvenient because they got ran off the road. I mean, he enjoys that kind of stuff. He didn't even stop to kill him or anything. Well, no, he ran you off the road. He just assumes, you know.

[00:14:53] And he just kind of laughs on his way away. Ha ha. Report that to your insurance company. Yeah. If you can actually see me. Yeah. Yeah. How are you? What's my license plate? You got no information. It's so petty and low stakes for Satan to do. Well, it's probably a low level demon. Oh, I see. He's speeding by pretty quickly. You know, they see some horns and, you know. And they just assume that it's. Prejudice kicks in and they assume it's the only one. Yeah. Of course you would say that. You think all demons look the same. Yeah. That's. Yeah.

[00:15:22] Oh, boy. That's problematic. It's obviously these people's fault. They got run off the road from being the way they are. Yeah. Maybe that's maybe. Re-evaluate, you know, your prejudices. Yeah. Maybe you should think about yourself when you're driving down Route 666. Oh. So there's Satan's sedan, but there's also stories of a phantom semi truck. Oh. That especially went around the trucker community.

[00:15:51] Obviously, this is a big highway, you know. Is this like a Cheaper's Creepers thing? Sort of, but it's kind of the same story as Satan's sedan, though. It just runs you off the road. It appears out of nowhere, speeds up behind you. When it gets close, it could try to run you off the road. Or at times, this one is said to just run into the back of your car. Just ram into you. Yeah, or I would assume semi. This is a tale that goes around with the truckers. Oh, with the trucker community, yeah. So he seems to stalk the truckers more.

[00:16:20] It has been spotted by other people. These are just tales that have gone around for decades now. Yeah. You know, since this road has been established, you know, and people have been driving up and down it. You just hear these stories. Inevitably, you're going to get some kind of, yeah. Yeah. And of course, there's also the Phantom Hitchhikers. Yeah, I heard that in the intro. That was interesting. And this is pretty common on, like, it could happen on any roadway. Okay.

[00:16:49] We have a tale here in Louisville of a Phantom Hitchhiker. There's the famous Resurrection Mary in Chicago. Usually it's a woman. Okay. Usually it's associated with some sort of accident. Now, on the Devil's Highway here, there's tales of men and women Phantom Hitchhikers.

[00:17:12] Basically, any Phantom Hitchhiker story that you hear, the origin story differs. The events that happen to, you know, the unlucky traveler that picks up the Hitchhiker is usually pretty much the same. What will happen is you pull over. You see whoever it is on the side of the road. Looks like a normal hitchhiker. You pick them up. They're pretty quiet. Don't really answer a lot of questions.

[00:17:42] Just, you know, maybe tell you where they want to go. That's about it. And as you're driving down the road, all of a sudden, they're gone. Maybe the only thing left is a mist. They just disappear on you. Okay. Usually nothing really happens. Most of these stories, it's not, you know, of course, we don't know. If you just end up on the side of the road, you can't necessarily tell the tale if you didn't survive it.

[00:18:09] But most people tell the tale of, you know, driving down the road with this hitchhiker. And then all of a sudden they realize, oh, that's not a real person. It was a ghost the entire time. Oh. What's the point? Most of them, you know, if you look at the origin stories, like I said, most of them involve a tragic accident. You know, whether it's... So it's some kind of residual situation. Yeah.

[00:18:39] Like they're stuck in that place. It's not really a residual where it's like a repeated thing. Oh. They're looking for, you know, if it's a lady in white situation, a woman is looking for maybe her boyfriend or husband, whoever she was traveling with. Okay. A lot of times they're, you know, going to a dance or going to prom or some sort of date.

[00:19:03] And, you know, they get into a wreck, whether they're speeding on a dangerous highway or just, you know... So it's more that they're on the side of the road. Yeah. Yeah. You'll just be driving and there's somebody hitchhiking and it looks like a normal hitchhiker. Okay. And... And they get in your car and then disappear? Yeah. And usually, you know, nothing happens to you. It's just an eerie experience for you. Okay. All right.

[00:19:28] So, like, if you're going to encounter something on this road, this is probably the one. Awesome. I don't know what else to say about this. And we'll get... Like I said, there's not a whole lot of origin stories. There's plenty of wrecks that happened and things like that. So it could be any number of spirits that are still wandering this highway. We'll get into some of those other ones. We'll definitely cover, you know, our local one and Resurrection Mary.

[00:19:59] Those are the two big ones that, you know, we'll definitely cover. There's probably some other ones that, you know, have interesting backstories to them. This route really doesn't have a story that I could pinpoint that said, this is where this lady hitchhiker, this man hitchhiker... But, like I said, these stories are everywhere. Like, probably every state in the U.S. has... A similar... A similar phantom hitchhiker story. Gotcha.

[00:20:27] So this one's not really exclusive to the Devil's Highway. It's just another weird occurrence that happens along there. Now, another thing you might encounter that you don't want to run into... That seems to explain why a lot of people get blowouts and flat tires along the road. And I covered that a little in the intro. The hellhounds. The hellhounds.

[00:20:57] Yeah, that was the most interesting... I was like, ooh, hellhounds. What are we talking about here? They go by... They just chew on your tires and stuff? Is that what it is? I... That's... They like to come and slash your tires, and that's why you get in the wrecks. Now, they go by different names and different stories that they are... Here's my question. How much insurance fraud is trying to be committed? Because everybody's like, oh, God, I got in a wreck because these hellhounds... Because this truck driver drove me off the phantom...

[00:21:27] The truck driver ran me over... Saving himself, which is an... All those things, technically, we've talked about insurance before. This would all be an act of God. We talked about it with Donkey Lady. Yeah. Well, like, you know, okay. But how many people were going, it was the gosh darn... I was clearly not doing anything wrong. It was the hellhound. It was clearly not me being drunk as hell or also just on a whole lot of drugs. Being a daredevil driving down Route 666 at 150 miles an hour. Right, no.

[00:21:56] It's like, it's got to be these hellhounds. They're the ones that slashed my tires and made me run into this light pole or whatever. And I swear there was a semi here, but he took off and disappeared into the distance. And I couldn't see him. There was this guy. He had horns. He was in a big Lincoln Town car. I assume he was the devil. Oh, okay. Okay. Sure. I know what's going on here. Yeah. It's like... It's what most of this sounds like to me. Well, go ahead. Tell me about these hellhounds. Why are these hellhounds here? Because it's Route 666. That's why the hellhounds are here. That's the only reason.

[00:22:23] Well, I mean, this land existed well before it was designated Route 666. They could have been wandering out there the entire time. Okay. This is another tale that travels the world. There's legends of hellhounds, demon dogs, or just large black dogs. Right. That are usually an ominous sign, possibly a sign or warning of death coming.

[00:22:51] And if you see one, it's not a Chihuahua running around. This is a huge black dog. This is a big gnarly dog. Yeah. Usually associated with one of our favorites, the glowing red eyes. Oh, yes. In the paranormal world, they love the glowing red eyes. It's creepy. I mean, it's a hellhound, of course. Of course it is. It's going to have red eyes. But, you know, they're unusually large.

[00:23:17] They are attributed to slashing the tires and chasing and terrorizing motorists up and down. What's the speed limit on Route 666? I mean, I'm sure it changes. Yeah. I mean, it's generally like 65 to 75. Okay. You get to some of the small towns that you cross and it'll decrease down to possibly 25, you know, up to 45 through those areas.

[00:23:44] So you get some of those small towns on the right. Oh, yeah. There's tiny little towns all through there and it cuts right through them. So most of the open stretches, you're traveling at pretty good speeds. Gotcha. I mean, I think that's what most major roads in the U.S. are, 65 or 75. Yeah. So good open road speed. Gotcha. And obviously people aren't going to follow that. So it does get a little bit tricky.

[00:24:13] When you're out in the middle, like on the stretches of nowhere, no towns around, you're just gunning it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But back to our hellhounds. Yes. All over the world, there's tales of them. It goes back to Greek mythology. They had Cerberus, the three-headed dog that guarded the gates of the underworld. Yeah.

[00:24:36] Norse mythology had Garmar, a large wolf dog that was guardian for the goddess Hel and also associated with Ragnarok. Our good friend, Chris Hemsworth. From a few episodes ago. Friend of the show. I don't know if you know this. But in English folklore, large black dogs roaming the countryside date back to the 11th and 12th century. This is... I have a question. Okay. I thought it was Fenrir.

[00:25:06] Two different ones. Gotcha. Yep. Okay. Do you want to put that in there? It doesn't matter. Just keep going. So in English folklore, there's tales of large black dogs roaming the countryside all the way back to the 11th and 12th centuries. The Barghest of Yorkshire is one of the big stories. We'll talk about this one, but black dogs will be a topic for a bigger episode later on.

[00:25:33] But to give you some backstory, this is one of the more famous ones in England. It's a herald of death. If the Barghest lays down across the threshold of your home, you shall soon pass away. Is it Yorkshire or Yorkshire? It's Yorkshire. I probably said that wrong. That's okay. Thanks. You're welcome. Appreciate it. I'll leave all that in. All right. No problem.

[00:26:00] We know I'm not the talented linguist that you are. Correct. You know, I can't do... You've heard my accent. I can't do the Beatles or... Bales. Or any of your other famous accents. I'll be rogue. I want the Bales. How would they do it in Yorkshire? I'm in Yorkshire. Have some pudding. Thanks. Right? Yeah. Appreciate you guys over there in Great Britain. Anyway. If...

[00:26:30] If... If... You made me... Damn Beatles. So sometimes... Barghest will be seen leading a sort of procession of all the neighborhood dogs, which predicts the death of an important figure in the area. Okay. Some kind of dog parade. Yeah. Okay. He does what he does. He's a hellhound. Yeah. Can't control him. Uh...

[00:26:54] If you were to block or obstruct this in any way, the barghest would claw you and leave a wound that would never heal. So, that's why your tires in Route 491 are done for. You're interrupting some kind of procession. Obviously. Or he just doesn't like you. He just doesn't like you. Probably because you almost had a wreck with some demon friend of his. Like, lots of important things going on here.

[00:27:24] Uh... It is said to... It's said to live in Trawler's Gill, a limestone gorge in East Yorkshire. According to a ballad, The Legend of Trawler's Gill... Wow. Yeah. A man once tried to summon Burghurst with magic and was found with uncanny claw marks on his breast. That's a quote. Um...

[00:27:51] But yeah, that's just one example of worldwide black dog phenomenon. Sounds completely and totally plausible. And... I mean... I would just be careful if you ever see a really extraordinarily large black dog, especially if it has red eyes. Yeah. Or it's leading a parade of dogs. I don't see myself, uh... interfering with the path of some large parade of dogs. There's a possibility that you might go try to pet it.

[00:28:23] You already was gonna go pet the ghost dog at Waverly. Yeah. Okay. I might do that. A little different. It was a German Shepherd, so... It's still a big dog. Yeah. But I mean, if... Sometimes you just gotta... I mean... Gotta risk it sometimes, man. I mean... Does this dog look... I mean, it has glowing red eyes and it's very large. But... Is it still a good boy? I'm sure he still looks like a very good boy, even though he's obviously not.

[00:28:53] He's a hell out. Maybe he just needs a little pet. I mean, it's all about the training, really. It's not about the dog or the breed. There's no bad dogs. No. It's about... Yeah. All right. So, now we'll move on to some UFO and UAP... Awesome. It's such a large grab bag of stuff. Yeah. There's a lot going on here. We're getting to the last couple of things here that we're gonna talk about. Uh... So...

[00:29:23] There's been anything from glowing orbs, which, like I said earlier, maybe that contributes to some of the Satan's sedan sightings where they don't actually see a car. Also, maybe it doesn't. There is a distinct possibility that... Well, it could be a crossover of two different events. There's a distinct possibility this is all make-believe. I don't... That's kind of what it feels like to me. I mean... Let's not try to go, wait a second. Let's figure out what this Satan's sedan or these lights behind them are. All right.

[00:29:53] It could definitely be UAPs. That's such a wild thing to say. It could also be nothing, which is most likely what's going on here. I mean, something's happening. People saw something. People saw something. So, there's the glowing orbs, and there's, you know, actually craft that have been seen. You know, it could be, like I said, a crossover of multiple things.

[00:30:20] But let's take a look over at New Fork. There's been some reports from along the highway, and I'm gonna read you a couple of them. So, this one is from February 10th of 2002. That's when it was... That's when it occurred. It was reported in 2005 to New Fork.

[00:30:46] It takes place in Dove Creek, Colorado, which is along the route. So, they wrote, huge and out of nowhere. Clear night sky. I remember little if any moon. A friend and I were outside, maybe six miles east of the Utah-Colorado border, on what was Highway 666. I looked up to the north, and there, low in the sky, was a huge ship.

[00:31:14] I can only say that it was huge, possibly the size of 20 to 25 blimps. Okay. Pretty good description of the size. Wow. This whole guy's riding style is wild. Apparently, he works for Goodyear or something. I don't have confirmation of that. He's a blimp technician. Yeah, yeah. Perhaps 300 to 400 yards up. And I asked my friend, did you see that?

[00:31:43] This guy doesn't have any friends. Go ahead. Maybe he was talking to Satan. I don't know. He's driving along the highway. Maybe it was some kind of phantom hitchhiker. Possibly. But they did answer. They said, oh my God, yes, I do. That was her only response. It had, as best as I can describe, a stealthy look to it. What does that mean? That's the quote. It doesn't go into any further detail.

[00:32:10] It seemed to have uncloaked as some of its basic points were in alignment with certain stars. Oh my God. Okay. This is getting really... This guy was spending too much time in Arizona. Out through this area. He's on peyote like a crazy person. And then he's seeing 25 blimps line up with stars.

[00:32:38] It was the size of possibly 25. Cool. Maybe only 20. Between 20 and 25. Yes. Go ahead. I have always had an open mind. Oh boy. Yeah. As to the possibilities of UFOs. Yep. I think my mind was overwhelmed and shut down instead of dealing with what I had witnessed. Over the next year, I tried to talk to my fellow sighter several times about this event, wanting to confirm it.

[00:33:07] She, as I recall, evaded the issue and would not speak about it. She, on the other hand, said she tried to speak to me about it several times over the next year, and I was reluctant to talk about it. We have a mutual friend who says we both... I know this is getting right in your favorite area. Yeah.

[00:33:29] Uh, we have a mutual friend who says we both tried to get the other one to talk about it, but had little luck in doing it. Oh my God. She was a psychic medium. No. No. That's... It doesn't say that. That was just for Greg. Uh, she has added that it got extremely quiet as this sighting was occurring. I do not remember that, nor do I remember how the sighting ended.

[00:33:56] The duration of the event and the timeline following it are extremely cloudy and I am unsure. I have no feelings. It's because you were on drugs. That it... I have no feelings that an abduction occurred. Why do all these people that have these things write? They write... They write everything like this. Like, it's like... It's... Because they're not writing a made-up story. No. They're telling you from memory. They are...

[00:34:23] But they write in a way that tries to make them sound like not a crazy person. Everything that's written there is not the way a normal person writes anything down. Like, it's always got to be, and then, uh, approximately, I evaluate it. I've... All this nonsense. They always put all these things in it. And it's like, ugh. Could you just write the thing out? Why not... Also, maybe when they were putting this story into New Fork,

[00:34:52] they were going, I just gotta get this information out there. And they didn't really think about the fact that, you know, what is... This was 2002. So, they didn't know that 24 years later, uh, some weirdo on a podcast would be going, man, I wish they could write better. It's not about writing better. It's like they all... They're trying to write better. And they're just bad at it. I don't think that they're telling the... They're not telling it in a way... Can I say something?

[00:35:22] It is a story format. They're just... No, no, no. But they're always trying to make themselves seem smarter than what they are when they write something down. There's also another aspect to it. Um, it's make-believe. But go ahead. Well, you know what? Make-believe to you is... He's always been open-minded about it. He, again, the same thing I always say. Like, he really wanted something to happen. He was on a lot of peyote. There was nobody in the car with him. Uh, or there was. And she was also on peyote. And so they couldn't remember what was going on.

[00:35:51] Their mutual friend said that they talked to both of them. All the peyote and LSD they've always done put holes in their brains. And they can't remember anything. That's why they don't talk about it. All right. Moving on. They did talk about it. They did talk about it. They reported it just for us. Yeah. Thank you. All right. So we've got one more here to tell you. And buckle up. This is a little bit longer. Uh, this happened on October 27th, 1974.

[00:36:17] They reported it to New Fork on July 23rd, 2002. Wasn't really internet in 74. So maybe they didn't know about it then. Took a while. This happened in Eastland, Utah. Uh, it was sphere shaped and emitted other objects. That's the characteristics that they listed. When you go on a New Fork, they have all kinds of, you know. Gotcha.

[00:36:47] Forms for you to fill out. Some of them fill out everything. Some of them don't. This one has two observers. Duration one hour. At the time this was happening, I told myself that no one will ever convince me that this did not happen ever. Great. Cool. What a strange thing to say. This person might have been aware that in 2026, you were going to come on here, this podcast, and go, this is baloney.

[00:37:13] It's such a strange thing to be like, I'm planting my feet in the ground. This definitely happened. Shut up. Well, I mean, at least this person was prepared for you. We'll see if they wrote the story adequately for you. I'll be the judge of that. Yeah. We'll wait and see. My wife and I were camped at a very remote site near the Four Corners area. We had just set up camp when I noticed what appeared to be five round lights at the canyon

[00:37:40] rim approximately one quarter a mile directly above us. I told my wife it looked like we had some spotlighters up there. That's in quotes, apparently, like people up there shooting lights down at them or something. I grabbed my binoculars and I was surprised that I could only see rounded light objects. No vehicle. At that point, two of these lights moved above us and the other three slowly began to float

[00:38:08] towards us just above the juniper pinion trees. We jumped into the truck and headed up the only way out just as the objects were headed to the campsite. When we reached the rim of the canyon, we could only see the objects that seemed to vibrate as they moved just above the ground, around and over the trees and the landscape.

[00:38:32] They appeared to have two sections, the bottom green, the top red, and had a white tube-like section that hung from the bottom like a vacuum hose. Over the next approximately five miles, we observed approximately 50 of these. We came to a building that looked to be used only seasonally for cattle or the bean field workers and pulled up to see if anyone was there.

[00:38:57] I honked my horn and was starting to open the door when the windows of the building began to glow red. We took off again for the paved road, not stopping to see if there was anyone at a couple of ranch houses we saw on the way in. As we approached the paved road, we could see a glowing red object just off the side of the road on my side. We passed it and stopped. I got my binoculars out and told my wife to shine the spotlight on it.

[00:39:26] When the light hit the object, it sort of exploded, and the main piece flew past my window. We were just sitting there wondering what was going on when my wife said a car was coming up behind us. Very soon, we knew it was far too bright to be auto lights. As I turned around and put the truck in gear, my wife started to scream as we took off. I looked in the rearview mirror to see a round, very bright object approximately 30 feet in diameter,

[00:39:55] above and behind us. For the next 10 miles, it would drop back and then instantly be right behind us several times. I was going 80 to 90 miles per hour down this narrow country road. We turned on to Highway 666 and headed towards Monticello, about 12 miles away. The object stayed with us until we were close to the highway patrol truck station outside of town. I skidded to a stop in front of the station and ran inside to tell them what happened.

[00:40:23] They said they were having a hard time believing what I was saying, but a trucker had a very similar story only a week before. They had decided that it must have been a helicopter, possibly with a flamethrower of some type. What? The police said this? Yes. Must have been a helicopter with a flamethrower. Of some type. Obviously.

[00:40:48] Because paint was burned on the truck trailer and the trucker opened his window to look and had received minor burns and his hair burned off. I offered to take any test they wanted to prove I was not under the influence, but they declined. I asked them to go. So obviously this guy's not on your peyote. Well, anybody who's on something, they're like, all right, listen, air cops, you can test me, whatever.

[00:41:19] I asked them to go with us to see for themselves. And because we had left all of our gear where we were camped, they called the sheriff's department and the sheriff highway patrol and my truck headed back up there. As you might expect, there was nothing there. Obviously. Not one light, nothing out of the ordinary. What could I say? I asked them to stay up on the rim of the canyon long enough for me to retrieve my gear. As we were throwing it into the truck, we could see them leaving.

[00:41:47] We drove up and out of the canyon and decided to find somewhere near the highway patrol station to get some sleep. The next day around 10 a.m. We awoke sitting up in the front of my truck and the rim of the canyon at the rim of the canyon where we first saw the lights. Neither of us remembered driving back to the spot. I asked my wife if she saw the big idea that was looking in the window of the truck. Yes. She did not.

[00:42:15] For two years, my brother and I went back there several times and saw many of the same small luminous balls that seemed to follow us everywhere. After that, we saw nothing out of the ordinary for several years that we returned to the area. I haven't been there for 10 years now. So, this one kind of covers all the things we've talked about so far. The lights on the highway. Well, something we haven't talked about yet, the big idea.

[00:42:45] That's a thing on its own? Well, it could relate to something or it could have been an alien with the mind warping that we talked about. Sure. I'm a deer. I'm a deer. I forgot. Don't look at me. I forgot to change my eyes. I forgot to make my eyes look right. Well, two things. Only two? Well, it might be less. I don't know. It might be just the one thing. I don't know why I said two things.

[00:43:13] Well, I see some balls of light coming at me. Why am I freaking out? Why am I running away? Well, at first, I don't think they really were. No, but then they started to move toward them. They're like, we gotta go. Yeah. I mean. Why? Well, I mean, you don't know what's going to happen. It's great. But I mean, that's not a thing. I'm like, what is, if I see something like that, I mean, what is that? And I'm only trying to figure out what, I'm going to go.

[00:43:40] Well, that's a much better reaction and we would get more evidence that way. Yeah. Instead, it's just some, some goofballs. Or you could get abducted sooner. No. Why does it, why did it have a vacuum hose hanging from it? For the flamethrower, I guess. They were, the police were halfway there. The police were almost at it. It was a UFO with a flamethrower, not a helicopter. Any cop that's ever going to go. Well, it could easily be a helicopter to flame.

[00:44:08] Don't you know anything about helicopters or flamethrowers on them? Number one, how do you fly a helicopter and shoot flames at the same time? They were trying to manage a burn. That doesn't make any sense. Because if a helicopter is flying forward, it has a flamethrower on it. The flame's going behind the helicopter. You don't, you get it. It's not going to go forward. It's going to go backwards because it's a helicopter.

[00:44:33] So what you're saying is the more credible people in this is the people that claim to see a UAP. These cops suck. The police are the ones that are not credible in this situation. I think there's not a credible person here. I doubt the cop said that. And I doubt this guy saw anything. It's a, it's again, the story, you saw some lights, but then you had to turn it into an action chase.

[00:45:00] Then you had to go visit the cops who told you it was a helicopter, flames that were on it. And then it had to be, you saw a deer with weird eyes, with weird big eyes. Like it has to, it always is this escalating weirdness with these people. It, the last story didn't escalate like that. The one before? Yeah. It did. Not like this. Cause he had to go. But then we try to talk about it. None of us wanted to talk about it. And then.

[00:45:29] That's barely an escalation. Yeah. But it's a stupid, it's a stupid tack on thing that you, it's something that you have to add to it. Why add to it? I saw something weird. And it's always like, saw something weird. But then the devil in the black sedan. Like it always has to be lights. And I couldn't see the vehicle that it was attached to. I got ran off the road. It scared me. Cool. Then I saw, I looked over. Then my tire blew out.

[00:45:55] But that was a, a hound, a devil dog or a hound or whatever the hell it is. A hell hound. Like why is it always, I just think that it's just bad, bad creative exercises. If people with, with. If all these extra things didn't happen to them, then we wouldn't be talking about it. Then it wouldn't be creepy. We wouldn't be talking about it if these things didn't actually happen to them. I know. Couldn't you imagine if we didn't talk about it? All right.

[00:46:26] Oh, I'm trying to imagine not talking about it. Yeah, I know. It sounds so great. A moment of silence. Yeah. Just for Greg. For what, yeah. What could have been? We could be talking about. Anything else. We could have just been talking about people camping right there. Anyway, I'm not overly mad about anything that you've told me. I think it's, most of it seems like fun. What a weird time for him to say that. Oh no. You're going to drop something. You're going to drop something else on me, aren't you?

[00:46:53] There was one last little thing that I've put in the intro that you have yet to comment on. Oh, what did I forget about the intro? And I have yet to discuss on this episode. Well, refresh my memory. Partially we discussed that this area, this road, it goes through Navajo territory. Oh no.

[00:47:19] So, our final thing we're going to discuss that is known to roam the area around the Devil's Highway. I kind of don't want to say the name. People don't want you to say the name. It's Navajo tradition. You don't discuss these things or they come to you. Here's a great thing. We're not Navajo, so it's fine.

[00:47:44] So, they're referred to in many different ways, especially in modern culture. People like to say different words for them. So, one word would be shapeshifter. Might call them a mimic. People on podcasts a lot, I've heard them refer to it as a flesh pedestrian.

[00:48:14] Flesh pedestrian. Thought you'd like that one. Oh, that's really good. So, do you know what we're talking about? Flesh pedestrian. You better not. The skinwalker. Oh, okay. Okay. What were you going to say? I didn't know. I didn't know. I thought you were going to say something wild. I thought you were going to refer back to black-eyed kids. No, no, no. No. They were not. Well, they may have been flesh pedestrian. We don't know. Flesh pedestrian. So, yes. Wait, what's it called?

[00:48:44] Is it called Skinwalker in Navajo? Skinwalker is. I don't believe that's Facebook English. No, no. So, I'll go ahead and say the name. We can go ahead and talk about it. Like you said, we're not Navajo. We're not. We live pretty far from Navajo lands. We got nothing to worry about because it's not real. For some reason, I hear that they can't travel the country. Most people think when they encounter a mimic or something in, say, Appalachia, it's not

[00:49:12] a Skinwalker because it can't possibly go that far. It's only known to live in Navajo lands. I think they could easily get an Uber if nothing else. They could do whatever. Yeah. They could get a Greyhound bus, go across the country. But I'll assume we're safe and we can call it a Skinwalker or we can call it whatever you want to. Okay. So, there's. But what did the Navajo call it? You still haven't. Their name is. Bear with me. You can butcher it. It's okay. Yee Naudelushi.

[00:49:43] Okay. Y-E-E. Yeah. N-A-A. Uh-huh. L-D-L-O-S-S-H-I-I. Wow. Yee Naudelushi. Gotcha. Okay. I didn't say it. Yeah. I did. So, that roughly means he who walks on all fours. Oh. Okay. That doesn't seem too bad. Well, they're dangerous witches. Oh. That have the ability to shapeshift into. Witches? Animals.

[00:50:14] We'll get. Okay, go ahead. We'll get to the full definition of it. They're considered to be the opposite of medicine men. So, if you're using magic for good, you're a medicine man. If you're using the magic for evil, you're a witch. You're a witch. Most witches in Navajo tradition are male, but it could be female. Okay. So, to become a Skinwalker. Yes. You must go through a secret initiation. Okay.

[00:50:42] That requires you to kill a close family member. Oh. That's it? Usually a sibling. Oh. Okay. Not always. But sometimes. But sometimes. So, they can take the form of virtually any animal. Usually it's a predatory animal, a bear, cougar, coyote. So, that made it taboo for the Navajo people to wear those pelts. Okay. Because if you're wearing that pelt, you might be considered a Skinwalker. They might think you're one of these witches.

[00:51:14] It also depends on what kind of trait that witch might need. So, you know, if they need big claws and power, they're going to go bear. You know, if they need something stealthier, maybe they go with something smaller. They could be a deer or a rabbit or something. Okay. A predatory rabbit? Well, no. I said most of the time it's predatory. Oh, okay. They can transform into any animal. It just depends on what they need. I would think if you're doing evil magic and want to transform into an animal, you're going to go with something.

[00:51:44] Something that can hurt somebody. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Not too many rabbit Skinwalkers running around, I don't think. Well. Could explain the jackalope. Maybe that's why it's not exactly right. Do you know what a jackalope is? It's a rabbit with horns. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They are said that when they're in human form, they have animal-like eyes. And when they're in animal form, they have human-like eyes.

[00:52:14] So they can't quite fully transform either way. Why is the eyes, though? Why is everything obsessed with the eyes? Everything has to be the eyes. It's the windows to your soul. Okay. All right. They possess the power to influence others. They already have the power to turn into animals. Why do they have this other thing? Because they're going to lure you out. Okay. Go ahead. They can cause illness, and they can reanimate the dead. What? What can they have? What are they?

[00:52:44] It's like reading a comic book for 20 years, and they keep adding powers to the superhero for whatever villain they have to fight. Oh, yeah. That's right. Superman can also drill into the ground by spinning around real fast. These are the villains. They're evil. I get it. But it's the same. I mean, it's... Go ahead. It's still make-believe. It's known that they stalk humans. It's known. It's known. Yeah. Everybody knows that. They'll tap on your windows. They'll mimic other people's voices. Why do they tap on your windows? Just to mess with you? Yeah. Okay.

[00:53:14] I love how most these haunting things or paranormal experiences or whatever kind of killer demon-ish thing are always just like, Hey, I'm going to mess with these people. Just for fun. I'm not trying to kill them. I'm just going to tap on their windows for no good reason. Well... And then turn into a vicious bunny and hop away. But if you do... Oh, no. No, wait. They can't travel to Virginia. They can't. Don't worry about it. Yeah, that's the same thing. That's not the whole land. It's not going to be. It's different.

[00:53:43] It's not Bunny Man. Mm-hmm. No. But you never want to look directly into their eyes because they can put you in a trance-like state. So they're vampires. And they can lure you out and say, well, I mean, maybe they're not coming into your house. You said it, not me. I don't think they're vampires. That's weird. Why would they be vampires? They're not just sucking your blood. They're luring you out into the wilderness. For what reason? To kill you? Well, you're gone. But, I mean, what do they do to you? Well, you're gone.

[00:54:12] What do you mean by that? You're gone forever. You just disappear? You just disappear. So nobody really knows. You don't want to find out. You don't want to follow a skinwalker. They have all supernatural powers. Like I said, there's sightings of skinwalkers running alongside people's cars, like, in human form. They already have that speed. They don't even have to take the animal form. Oh, they just truck. They're just out there trucking it.

[00:54:43] But why are they running next to the cars? They got to do something? Just to scare you. Why does everybody care about scaring you? What does that do? Maybe they feed off of it. Why is it? Or maybe they're hoping that you get freaked out and get into a wreck and then they have you to disappear you. Because they don't know what they do. Are they eating you? There's obviously a limit to their powers, so they can't just get into your car. It doesn't sound like that. It sounds like we could just make it up and say they can get in your car. Well, maybe they can get in your car.

[00:55:12] Maybe they... I just don't know why there's so many rules. Also, because you said they have to lure you outside. Yeah. They can't come inside. They mimic voices and... You said they can't come inside or is that just... You're just assuming that they can't. I'm assuming that they can't because they... They have to be invited. All the stories is them luring you into the woods or luring you into the desert. I'm still not mad about it because it's dumb. Um, I thought for sure the Skinwalker was gonna... It doesn't... It's not...

[00:55:42] It doesn't make me angry. I thought maybe you had even heard of the Skinwalker. I have heard of the Skinwalkers. Yeah. Uh, like passively. Yeah. I've heard of it before. There's a... There's a ranch. Yeah. I've heard of the Skinwalker Ranch. I don't know what it is. I know it's... I assume it's a ranch with Skin... I didn't know what Skinwalkers were. Well, Skinwalker Ranch is a huge grab bag also. Is it? Of different things. There's... Different goofy stuff. Yeah. Yeah. So that's...

[00:56:08] We know that's gonna be something that we talk about at some point. Gotcha. That's... Yeah. I did not know specifically what it is. And Skinwalkers are associated. It is in that area. Oh, it's in the same area? Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. So it is associated with the Navajo legend of the Skinwalkers. Man, white people are crazy. Because you always gotta take a Native American legend and be like, listen. Let's talk about it a whole lot, even though they said don't do it. Yeah.

[00:56:38] And let's reappropriate this and really... Something that could just have been, you know, legend and religion and stuff for the Navajo people. For some reason, white people get a hold of it. Well, number one, they take their lands. Then... What? Of their folk tradition and reappropriate it to make stupid paranormal stories about it.

[00:57:02] Well, I mean, they are taken to make stories, but this legend comes from Navajo tradition. It comes from tradition. It doesn't necessarily... It hasn't... Here's an interesting way to look at it, because it's not necessarily that Native American peoples were going, hey, this is real. It's the same thing as looking at, like, the Greek pantheon of gods. You know, it's not going, hey, this stuff...

[00:57:26] Maybe at one point it was real to them, but at a certain point it became a way to live your life or to exercise caution or not do these things or to be wary of something. Who knows if they were going, yep, this is real. Navajo peoples were going, yep, oh, this is real. Well, who... The problem is other people, other cultures get a hold of it, reappropriate it, and turn into something going, yeah, and this is real and creepy. I don't know how real they took it or... I don't know either.

[00:57:56] I don't know enough about it. But... I doubt they... It is still, you know, in their culture not to say the word, not to discuss it. Right, but... You don't even really, you know, tell stories of it. Like, you just... Right, but there's also... There's all kinds of things culturally that are the same way. It doesn't mean that you believe that something is going to actually happen because you say these words. It's just because it's a tradition. It's part of the culture. It doesn't necessarily...

[00:58:22] And like I said, I'm not saying that that means they believe that it is 100% true. Yeah. I'm just saying that is still part of their culture not to discuss it. If you went to them and tried to ask them about it, they're going to go, no. Well, that would be rude. But... Well... I mean... I'm just saying. It's... It's... I don't... White people are crazy. All right. So... Is that the last one we had? Yeah. So that's the end of our little... Trip down.

[00:58:51] Summer road trip down... Route 666. The Devil's Highway. Route 666. Yeah, we got a lot of stuff. We got a lot of stuff. That's not as cool. We're going to call it Route 666 again. Yeah, yeah. Uh... So... We'll wrap this up. Um... Go to our website. NoSuchThingAsGhost.show There you can listen to all the episodes. You can also leave a rating review. Um... You can also leave a voicemail.

[00:59:20] If you want to talk about some of these things. If you want to share your encounters and have me probably eviscerate them and get mad about it. And have Andy take it seriously. I will encourage you. And then... I enjoy your stories. If you would like to share them, I'd like to hear them. You can also visit our shop. Uh... From there, you can... Get a t-shirt or a hoodie if you want to that has the No Such Thing As Ghost logo on it. Eventually we'll come up with some more stuff, but that's down the road. Uh...

[00:59:47] Also, go to Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Leave a rating and review. Five stars. Yeah, give us five stars. And then, uh... You know, tell your friends about it if you're enjoying it. You know, spread the word. Uh... What else? Social media, Andy? Oh, yeah. TikTok. Uh... No Such Thing As Ghost. Instagram. No Such Thing As Ghost Pod. Uh... Facebook. No Such Thing As Ghost Pod.

[01:00:30] Uh... You disagree with Greg's criticism. Yeah. And his... You can tell him that you're not writing your stories for him. That's right, yeah. Um... But, uh... Yeah, that's it. See y'all guys next time. Bye.