Aliens 101: UFO Folklore & Paranormal Phenomena | Part 1

March 1, 1639.

John Winthrop, Governor of Massachusetts Bay Colony, usually writes in his diary the trials and triumphs of their fellow Puritans.

This day is different.

However, this day's account is far more unusual.

James Everall, a sober, discreet man, and two others were rowing their boat up the muddy river when they saw a great light in the night sky.

When it stood still, it flamed and was about 3 yards square.

When it ran, it contracted into the figure of a swine.

Winthrop claims that other credible persons saw the light.

Two to three hours pass, and the boatmen report the mysterious light ran as swift as an arrow, darting back and forth between the men and the village of Charlestown.

What seemed like an instant, the light vanished and the men were shocked to discover that they were nearly a mile upstre.

It's.

Welcome to the no Such Things Ghost podcast.

My name is Greg.

You just heard Andy in the intro talking about some dudes from the 1600s seeing some stuff in the sky.

If it's your first time listening to this show, I am a hardline skeptic.

Andy, how would you describe yourself?

I tend to believe.

He tends to believe.

Great.

Okay, so tell me which what I assume to be UFOs?

Tell me more about.

That is basically the first non Native American American soil UFO sighting.

Okay, cool.

First documented.

You're new to this.

This would be Aliens 101 that we're gonna.

Oh, we're gonna go into the basics.

Greg needs to know about UFOs, aliens.

I get it.

All of it.

Don't even worry about it.

I understand it all.

Oh, you got it.

Yeah.

Unidentified Flying Objects.

Very good.

Because the first thing I was going to discuss was some of the terminology.

Oh, I got it.

I nailed it.

Ufo.

Uap.

UAP is the new term Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon.

And actually they have changed that a little bit to where it's not just an identified aerial phenomenon.

It's now been redefined as Unidentified Anomalous Phenomenon.

Okay.

Because it actually relates to unknown objects sighted in the air, in space, or in water.

Water and transmedium.

What's that?

Objects means going from space to air, air to water, water to air.

All of the above, Everything in between.

Because another term you might not know is uso.

Unidentified Submergeable Object.

It's is an object that has been reported repeatedly where a UFO is sighted over water and then dives into the ocean.

I didn't know that.

Or a lake.

Yeah, that is a common sighting.

I didn't know.

I didn't know a flying saucer would Go.

Oh, let me dive in this water.

I came from space.

Let me dive in this water.

I mean, I guess it would be equally capable of a vehicle if it could travel through space.

Could also travel.

We are definitely going to touch on that repeatedly in this episode.

Sure.

There are several sightings and occurrences that we will discuss.

Didn't even know that was a thing.

In fact, one of the first could have been in 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue.

And according to his law.

Thank you, grade school.

Yeah.

On September 15th of 1492, quote, we sailed day and night for 27 leagues to the west.

Tonight we saw wonderful fiery light fall from the sky, which fell into the sea at a distance of four or five leagues.

Now, many people believe he may have documented a uso, But.

Okay, fine.

I mean, early sightings.

It could have been whatever.

I mean, it could have been.

Could have been a meteor.

Yeah.

Could have been the vastness of the ocean there, you know, I mean, he.

Was selling for days and days and days.

Could have been.

And of course, Christopher Columbus, the most reputable source.

I mean, he went from Europe, went west, and found.

Not America.

No.

Thought it was.

Well.

And wasn't even looking for America.

Moving on.

Okay.

Problematic figure in general.

Now, you've already mentioned the word that I'm looking for, but if you were to describe a UFO in your basic understanding.

Okay.

Of this topic, how would.

What.

What would be the first thing that.

Came to mind for you describing?

Like, what would you call it?

A ship.

Yeah, like the ship.

A flying saucer.

Very good.

Thanks, teacher.

Again.

That's the one I'm talking about.

So let's go back to June 24, 1947.

Okay.

We're in Mount Rainier, Washington, and Kenneth Arnold was flying from Tehilas to Yakima.

Cool in a cal air.

Love Yakima in the summer.

It's beautiful.

Beautiful.

Yes.

Yeah.

He detours after learning of a $50,000 reward for a US Marine Corps C46 transport plane that had crashed near Mount Rainier.

He looked for a while, gave up on his search, and just before 3pm he headed east towards Yakima.

Beautiful.

And when he noticed a bright flashing light that looked like sunlight reflecting off of a mirror.

About 30 seconds later, he saw another series of bright flashes off to the north of Mount Rainier.

He thought it might be sunlight reflecting off of his windows, so he ran a few quick tests.

He rocked the airplane from side to side and removed his sunglasses and finally rolled down his side window.

Arnold reports that the objects appeared so Thin and flat, that they appeared invisible.

He was quoted as saying that the object were saucer or dishaped.

So this is the first sighting that actually describes it as a saucer.

You say objects or objects.

Objects.

He saw multiple lights.

Okay.

And he described them as a saucer.

As a saucer, yes.

And so that is the first time that we have that documented saying that's a flying.

The saucer.

That's the origin of.

Correct.

So 1947 is the first time we get that term.

Man, that's really late.

Yeah, it seems recent.

Like, I mean, also because of the big UFO craze is pretty hot on the tail there.

Right.

The, the time period is when that you see flying saucers in media.

And so apparently shortly after that it become.

Becomes a pretty big deal.

I'm assuming these things were printed in the paper and.

Oh yeah, this was reported all over.

It's weird how close that is.

I thought that would be already well established, like at least by, you know, like 20 years.

I thought, I thought it would be around for a little bit and then it would.

Well, flank media made it.

I don't know about to you, but to me it's almost seems kind of outdated.

And you'll see as we go through some of these terms, the, the sightings change and there's different fads of what people see, different flashing.

Yeah.

And to me, because I guess I know a little bit more about it, maybe like flying saucer is not the first thing that comes to mind now.

Orbs and stuff like that.

Right.

Like you've got.

Yeah.

So especially an aircraft that are sighting stuff.

A lot of times it's like an orb or a speck or something moving quickly compared to the aircraft.

Right.

And we're going to go into this in a minute.

But lights is a common.

People just see strange lights and that's something that could be mistaken.

Head injuries.

Well, I just mean like you could.

There's other kind of an airplane for something you don't know.

So it becomes unidentified.

Right.

Yeah, like that type of thing.

And so that's the most common and that's probably always been the most common.

Yeah.

Like just general lights.

Yeah.

And this one is kind of the same.

This, this original sightings.

He's saying.

Yeah, he saw lights or something reflecting.

Yeah, he thought it was something reflecting at first and then.

But light can change, Right.

Depending on what it is refracting on or bouncing off of that.

Right.

He's flying in a plane, so he's moving.

So does it mean.

Because the light is also shaped doesn't mean the object.

It' itself is saucer.

Shaped.

Correct.

You know what I mean?

Correct.

Yeah.

So before we get into the actual types, let's talk about where would, where would you report a sighting?

There's.

There's two major reporting agencies.

Okay.

I'm sure one of the FAA or.

Yeah, faa.

No, these are specific.

Oh, specifically UFO sighting.

Oh, agencies.

So you have mufon MU F. Oh,.

N. What's that saying for?

That is the Mutual UFO Network.

Okay.

They've been around since May 31st of 1969.

So we're nice going ahead a little bit after some of that flap that we were just talking about.

They began hosting conferences in 1970 and they still do to this day to allow investigators and researchers a place to share their findings and technology.

And you know, they're.

Can anybody go to a MUFON con?

Yes, you can.

You can attend.

There's different meetings throughout the year.

Now.

They have specific.

Now is this an actual.

This is not an actual government agency.

Is this.

This is not a government agency.

It's a privately, privately funded agency, yes.

In 1971 the board set up training of investigators to give them more consistent investigations and the filing of reports.

So they keep a consistent filing and you can go online.

Now this one you have to pay to be a member for mufon.

So you can't just go in and research everything independently.

Gotcha.

By 2005, they have listed all issues of their MUFON UFO Journal and their annual conference proceedings.

They all, they scanned it all and made it available for all of their researchers.

Everything's now Digital.

As of 2021, they created a social network for members to have a safe platform.

And as of 2024 they have compiled over 140,000 witness reports.

The other reporting center would be Newfork, the national UFO reporting center.

This was founded in 1974.

Their primary function was to receive record and to the greatest degree possible, appropriate and document reports from individuals who have been witness to unusual UFO related events.

They have documented over 180,000 reports in their history.

The biggest difference between Newfork and MUFON is that they make their summarized data available free to everyone.

Their detailed reports and info are available to all researchers.

So we're going to take most of our information tonight from New Fork because it is free and readily available.

So where do you think, as far as the United States, where do you think the most UFO sightings would occur?

Region or state?

We're going to go by state.

I have a top 11 list, not top 10.

Top 11.

Well, there's a reason for that.

We'll get to 11 in a minute.

Okay.

Okay.

It sounds weird.

No, it's not.

Okay.

It's only going to be relevant to us.

My guess would be mostly the flat lands, like open areas or places that are already kind of UFO hotspots.

So my guess would be like New Mexico.

Not in the top 11.

Ooh, interesting.

Yeah.

Okay.

Kansas, Also not at the top 11.

Oh, weird.

I thought you would have guessed a couple of these.

I thought these would be flatland places.

I mean, those are good guesses.

Okay.

So is the whole Appalachian.

Okay.

West Virginia.

West Virginia, not in the top 11.

But I thought that was going to be it.

There have been.

Okay, okay, okay.

Been hot spots.

I'm way off here.

Montana?

Absolutely not.

All right, so it's going to be high population.

High population.

So it's going to be California, number one.

New York, number five.

Okay.

So Florida, number two.

Okay.

Oh, boy.

I gotta get my populations in order.

Maybe Texas, number four.

Okay.

Number three.

I don't.

I. I didn't look up populations, but I.

It doesn't compare to those other top four.

Oh, was it like New Hampshire?

No.

Rhode Island?

No.

Oh, wrong side.

Wrong.

Wrong side of the nation.

I think bigfoot was.

So is it like.

I don't know where bigfoot's at?

Washington, Wash. Oh, Washington.

Yeah.

Okay.

Pretty populous.

That's a very populous place.

But I don't think it's as populous as California.

But it has lots.

There's lots of available land there, too.

Yes.

Yeah.

You know what I mean?

So there we've hit the top five.

California, Florida, Washington.

Texas.

Pennsylvania comes in at six.

Pennsylvania, the home of the squad.

Then you were very close with Arizona at number seven.

You're in the right area.

And then always weird.

Ohio at number eight.

Illinois comes in at number nine.

Okay.

Yeah.

Number 10, North Carolina.

And number 11, our state of Kentucky.

Great.

That's why I went top 11.

Just because you just want.

I wanted to find out where Kentucky was at in that ranking.

Pretty close.

All right, so now we can talk about the kinds of crafts that are reported.

Now, like we said, the number one on the new fork list is lights.

Just lights.

Unusual lights in the sky in different.

Patterns and stuff, Right?

Yeah.

People could be in all kinds of different.

A lot of times it's in a triangle coming up.

Oh, okay.

But lights just by themselves, you know, floating around.

Could be.

Floating around, could be unusual lights, could be amorphous.

It could change the Shape.

A little bit.

Oh, yeah, big words.

Wait, wait, wait.

By shape, what do we mean by changing shape?

Reorient.

Reorienting into a different shape.

Yes.

So not a light.

Changing the shape of the light.

But technically that could re.

Categorize all of these because.

Yeah, yeah, it could start in a.

Triangle and then it's like now, now it's a rhombus.

All those.

It could be multiple crafts.

It could be one, probably.

I would think if it's changing shape that drastically, it would be multiple crafts.

Who knows, man?

So number two on their list is circular.

So that would be like saucer shape.

Yeah.

Three.

Triangle.

Triangle, right on that one.

That's pretty big lately.

Yeah.

The unknown.

Unknown shape.

Unknown shape.

I don't think there's such a thing.

I don't know if there's such thing as an unnamed unknown shape.

Oddly enough, number five is other.

What's the difference between unknown and other?

A lot, apparently.

Play connect the dots and figure out what the shape is.

Number six is fireball.

What?

Oh, we've talked about fireballs.

Gosh darn Nazi bell.

That's a different shape.

Wait a minute.

That was on fire though.

It was a fireball.

And then it was.

And then number seven is mushroom.

Is disc.

Disc.

Wait, this is different than circular.

Okay, okay, I guess a disc.

We're being flat.

Yeah.

Three dimensional.

No, no, three dimensional.

I'm thinking circular.

Might like be just lights.

Just a bulk.

Like an orbish or an orb.

More of a.

However, object.

Okay, we get to number eight.

Orb.

Sphere.

Sphere.

What?

I'm very confused by this.

Number nine.

Yeah, Orb.

So close.

You were right there.

What's the difference between an orb and a sphere?

And number 10, you're not answering my.

Question because you don't have an answer.

Oval.

A slightly different shaped.

Slightly different circular.

Not flat, not saucer, not.

What's the difference between an orb and a sphere?

Yes.

Okay, let's talk about a few of those.

Let's just go down what some of those.

Let's do some examples.

Like we said, lights, misshapen, amorphous.

Usually just the lights changing shape.

So that's different than a singular ship with lights on it.

It's probably multiple ships moving around in the sky.

Now if we talk saucer, disc shaped.

You're looking at the Kenneth Arnold sighting.

Westall High.

The high school students in 1966 in Melbourne, Australia saw a silver disc shaped object that landed behind the school in some trees.

So that's a popular disc shaped one also that we probably get into later.

Some of these I'm going to go into very quickly for you.

Okay, I'll try not to interject and.

Yeah, like we'll touch on some of them.

Some of them I will go a little deeper in.

But a lot of these are subjects that we're going to do full episodes on.

So I'll give you some examples and then we'll kind of move on.

We've got a lot to cover here.

I know this is the first description of UFO sightings other than individual cases that we've already done.

But we're trying to get a lot of information, especially to Greg here.

A lot of the listeners will know a lot of these sightings already, so we're going to touch on them quickly.

Then triangles.

Like I said, this is pretty popular in more recent history.

It could be just three lights forming a triangle or a huge.

There's a lot of sightings of huge triangular shaped craft that, you know, sometimes block out the stars.

Like it's, it's a huge ship.

They had a big sighting from 89 to 90 in Belgium where a lot of people saw these huge triangular shaped craft.

Another one, recent as 1997, the Phoenix Lights.

Oh, you've heard of that one?

I've heard of that one, yeah.

And there were a lot of triangular shaped reports there.

Now, one that didn't really make the, the, the top 10, but maybe the oval shape could be at the Tic Tac, which I know you've heard recently in the disclosure.

Sightings that we've had with the military as recent as 2004, the USS Nimitz off of Southern California coast detected on radar and it dropped from 80,000ft to sea level in a matter of seconds.

There was no visual propulsion.

It maneuvered at speeds and G forces that are beyond our capabilities at this time.

These were all videos that were released recently by the government.

Now, Andy, are you going to collect all these videos and put these in?

Yes, we will post a lot of this.

Okay.

Because I would like to see these too, because I, I don't know anything about this.

So you haven't seen some of these Tic Tacs?

No, no, I've seen a Tic Tac.

Well, we will definitely get all that posted.

For anybody that hasn't seen it, Greg will take a look at it here shortly so he can have a little bit of knowledge of it.

I assumed that you had seen these with the recent reports that were going on.

No, because.

Because you don't care.

Yep.

Okay.

Nailed it.

I mean, no, I mean it's just I've seen.

I've seen some of this stuff.

I have no context or something.

I don't know.

You might have seen this and not really known.

Yeah.

What I saw.

And nor did I follow away in my brain because like you said, it just.

I was like, oh, okay, that's a thing.

And then I moved on.

Like, who knows?

Who knows?

Makes sense.

So some of these recent Tic Tacs that were reported by.

I know it sounds weird when I say it like that.

Makes me giggle a little every time.

It's fine.

Some of these were actually USOs.

They actually dipped down into the ocean, especially off of the California coast.

There's been lots of reports of that to the point where there are theories that there may be underwater bases for these UFOs, USOs, because they constantly appear on the coast and then disappear.

And they're not going up back into space.

They're disappearing into the ocean.

So, I mean, you're talking about some of the deepest parts of the ocean.

There are also reports of this in the Atlantic off the Florida coast.

You know, maybe a triangle area.

Like, I mean, there's been reports of this for.

For decades now.

But of course, it's come back into popularity with these government releases here recently.

Now, discussing our government, very important topic to me.

I would like to start with the President.

Oh, no, hear me out.

Okay.

There's a popular conspiracy theory in February of 1954.

Okay.

So lower your expectations a little bit lowered.

Yeah.

All right, so President Dwight D. Eisenhower disappeared from his vacation in Palm Springs to meet with aliens.

Oh, sure.

They wanted him to eliminate the US Nuclear weapons in exchange for advanced technology.

Okay.

So supposedly he had an excuse of an emergency dentist appointment and just snuck away from his family vacation.

And he met with these beings that were possibly associated with the crash in Roswell.

Ah.

Where did.

From 1947.

Where did this information come from?

Places.

Okay, cool.

Great.

I love having sources.

So we've.

Since we're talking about our government and our history with aliens, that we obviously have.

Yeah.

We know there have been investigations and projects continuously going on since at least the 1930s.

What do we mean by projects?

Well, that's part of the releases that came out here in the 2000 and twenties.

Cool.

That had nothing in it.

No, they documented government investigations.

Investigations are not projects.

Projects and investigations, same thing.

What projects they do.

Funny you asked that.

Great.

So according to the testimony of David Grush.

Okay.

Yeah.

Huh.

I think I've heard these.

23.

July of 2023.

Yeah.

Claims that the Government.

This guy claims a bunch of stuff though, doesn't he?

He claimed that they recovered non human biologicals and crafts.

This guy claims a bunch of stuff.

He keeps coming out.

He keeps coming out and claim.

Yeah, great.

He keeps coming out and saying all this stuff.

And then they keep releasing little bits of stuff.

Mostly I understand most of it's like redacted, but this guy says a lot of stuff.

Like, I don't, don't necessarily believe a guy that keeps going, but the aliens, he keeps.

He keeps coming out and talking about stuff.

Well, but not really saying anything other than the government has this stuff.

He's saying a lot.

He keeps saying stuff.

And if you don't believe him, I mean, we do have documented releases from the government.

Okay, great.

What's in those?

Starting in 1947, we had project sign.

Okay.

That ran for two years.

The objective of this project was to collect and evaluate and distribute within the government all information relating to UFO sightings because they could be a security concern.

Cool.

That makes sense.

I understand these are documented projects, which is fine.

It lasted two years.

Yep.

And that's just to keep everybody informed on potential, you know, from the sightings.

And everything else, because.

And at a certain point you have to investigate everything.

We're using terms back and forth, ufo, uap, whatever.

Right, But I mean, with the amount.

When we're saying that, it's not saying the government is saying aliens are invading Earth.

Right.

But the amount of sightings by civilians and government military personnel.

Right.

You have to go, okay, what do we have going on here?

Yeah, and it could be anything.

It's just unidentified.

It doesn't mean.

That doesn't prove the existence of any of these things, though, just by disseminating the information.

That's just trying to be ahead of something just in case there is a threat.

I understand.

Looking into it.

And at the end of this project, they did release a paper.

Okay.

So on April 27, 1949, they released a paper stating that some UFOs appeared to be actual aircraft and there was not enough data to determine their origin.

Right.

Most were explained away with ordinary causes.

Yeah.

But they also recommended to continue investigating sightings.

Sign was first released to the public in 1956.

It was a book called the Report on Unidentified Flying Objects by retired Air Force Captain Edward Rupel.

Okay.

Immediately after that, Project Grudge came out, and it had a slightly different objective.

The claim was to investigate UFO reports in much the same way, but mainly focused on debunking them to alleviate public anxiety.

They had an Actual project that was investigating who knows what.

And then they came out with one that was like, you all need to calm down.

Right.

Like these are this.

It's nothing.

Don't worry about it.

Which has got to be a conspiracy.

Somebody telling us not to worry about it.

Oh, my God.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy.

But that's the way everybody took it.

Well, maybe it was.

That's the fun of conspiracies again.

There's so many other things the government's going to lie to you about.

Why are they going to lie to you about this stuff?

This at least would keep you distracted for a little bit while they lie to you about everything else.

So that project lasted two years, 49 to 51.

Weird how the government doesn't want to fund this.

Yeah.

And they quickly explained everything away as conventional aircraft balloons or illusions.

Yep.

Which happens a lot, to be honest with, you know.

And the perfect way to explain things, you know.

Oh, you, you.

You just saw an illusion.

Well, I mean, you looked at it wrong.

Yeah.

That happens a lot, though.

That happens the most rational people.

Well, not.

It happens to some people.

Some people are.

It's weird.

Yeah.

Correct.

There's a government report that.

There's a government.

There's a government ran project.

There's a government.

No, it's not a project, but it's.

Literally called Project Grudge, which, by the way, they start out with Project Sign.

There's a sign.

We all saw it.

There's signs of things in the sky that we don't know.

And then there's Project Grudge.

What is that?

It's an acronym.

Grudge against.

No, there's no acronym.

It's called Project Grudge.

It's got to be an acronym.

It feels like they have a problem with us finding out the truth.

Do you know out there?

Do you know for fact?

It's not an acronym.

All they list it as is Grudge.

Anyway.

So you release one report to go, let's look into these things and let's make sure that it's not a risk.

National security.

Right.

So at that point, everybody goes, well, if they're looking into it, it must be real stupid.

Then we go and they do the next.

The Project Grudge situation to make sure that everybody, the, the people don't lose their minds and become paranoid.

So how many millions of dollars did we spend?

Over two years to go.

We already did a project on this.

But we want to make sure that you understand because it's.

Because everybody's still talking about it, still all over the place.

They're not.

Why would I have to.

All I have to do to hide something would not be do anything.

Not to do anything at all.

Talking about it again just makes everybody talk about it some more.

So I could have just not done anything.

So the government obviously was going, okay, we have to look into this.

Okay, everybody's.

There's still a lot of people freaking out about this and really worried about it.

Let's try to.

Let's obviously try to debunk it, because that is what you should.

The first thing you should do.

I mean, gather information.

I don't disagree with that.

Gather information on the subject.

And then you go, well, we didn't find anything inclusive here.

Let's try to find a way to go, oh, this is some kind of natural phenomenon.

You start to weed out all that other stuff and go.

Most these cases are cases where it's nothing.

I don't know why that becomes a conspiracy.

That's.

That's not the conspiracy of it.

The conspiracy is they were trying to tell people, don't worry about it.

But people are like, now you're just lying to us.

And so that.

That makes them.

You could have not even talked about it.

You could have not even brought it up again.

And it probably would have been better.

It probably would have been.

But you know what they did then?

What did they do?

Shut down Project Grudge.

Great.

And then.

Sure.

From March of 1952 to December of 1969, they ran Project Blue Book.

I am familiar.

Heard of Project Blue.

Don't know all the.

In between, like, all the ins and outs of it.

And so now you're going to know a lot of it.

They operated out of Wright Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio.

In Ohio?

Yeah.

It's pretty close to Cincinnati.

The project had two goals.

To determine whether UFOs posed a threat to national security.

Sounds familiar.

Yeah.

And to scientifically analyze UFO related data.

Great.

So by the time it ended, they had collected over 12,000 reports and concluded that most were misidentifications and natural phenomenon, like stars, clouds, and conventional aircraft.

Again.

Mm.

Makes sense.

I'm okay with that.

Yeah.

Like, people mistake things.

It's an unidentified flying object.

No big deal.

701 Reports remained officially unexplained.

So still, because you can't.

You don't want to explain away all of it if you don't have a direct answer.

Still could be anything.

Still.

But they found no threat to national security and no evidence of advanced extraterrestrial technology.

So they actually put that statement out there, that which seems reasonable to me.

And when Blue Book ended, according to the revelations of the 2023 hearings, there is a belief that they kept investigating this.

I mean, it ran for 17 years, but you know, did it keep going?

So is there, or are there more projects that they didn't tell the public about?

Why would you release some of them but not all of them?

But wait a second, how do we know that from that one weirdo that keeps going on tv?

I mean, that's the only source that.

You have is this one guy that keeps talking about aliens on talk shows and news channels.

It's just wonderful.

Who cares if it's under oath?

People lie under oath all the time.

But under oath means nothing to me.

But besides that fact, you released three projects that they definitely were investigating this, that's fine.

Why wouldn't you, I mean, why wouldn't you release some evidence and then go, well, that's enough.

They literally said 700 of them.

They could not identify what they were and they could not rule it out.

They didn't at no point in this, in Project Blue Book go, but don't worry about these 700.

They said there's 700 of them, that we don't know what it is.

But they also said don't worry about them, we just can't identify them Before.

Before.

But I mean, it obviously wasn't a national security risk.

There obviously wasn't anything they could.

The, the vast majority of things they were able to clearly explain away.

But there's 700 em left.

If I was the government, I'd be like, nope, those are all fine.

They didn't say that.

They said they're 700.

We don't know what these are.

That's pretty transparent.

That's the most transparent you're going to get from the government.

That is the most transparent thing you'll ever get.

There's 700 of these things.

We don't know what they are.

You don't need a conspiracy theory around it.

You just go, well, there's 700 of those things.

We don't know what they are.

And then you continue doing whatever you want to do as your ufologist, you just do what you do.

You could still believe in whatever you want to because you have 700 in there.

Why are we going.

But they're hiding this from.

No, they're not.

They just literally told you, we don't know what these 700R.

And this wackadoo goes on TV a bunch and lies under oath and then says all this stuff happened.

Why do you believe in one guy?

The government literally gave it to you.

700 Of them.

We don't know what they are, but.

What did they not tell us?

What do you mean with it?

They.

They literally told you, we don't know what these are.

Which is the biggest admission that you could possibly get going.

That's 700 things that.

We don't know what their origin are.

We can't say they are not spacecraft.

We can't say they are not aliens.

They can't say it because they don't know.

They don't have enough information.

They can compare other sightings and things that have already been debunked.

Did they just go, well, project's over.

Let's say the government.

They only.

They don't fund things.

They fund things and they go, that's a waste of time.

Cut that, cut that, cut that, cut that.

Put the money over here.

Where?

It's stupid.

This is the same government that also just throws money away.

So were they throwing money away at UFOs?

The government throws away money all the time at other.

Other dumb stuff.

I mean, what I'm trying to say,.

Why couldn't they be throwing it away at UFOs?

Because they did.

They already did.

But why they continue to do it?

Why?

My problem is, why are we making a big deal about it?

They just admitted they didn't know what 700 of the things were.

Well, that gives you enough to keep going.

You said another key word that I really like that I know you don't like, but you brought it up.

So let's talk about ufologists.

Yeah, but first, can I make a retraction?

Can I. I want to say something.

You want to take the word back?

No, I want to say something about our previous episode.

You talked about Jacques Vallee in the last episode, and I said, not a sight.

He was.

He's a scientist.

To the episode on the Delphos Ring.

The Delphos Ring.

He was indeed a scientist and he did use some scientific method stuff.

And so.

And what he kind of.

He.

He gathered information.

He is a person.

And I read up a little bit about him after the fact, which is great.

I love when I do things after it.

But I.

But I don't.

I don't know what Andy's gonna always tell me.

And I always go off that gut instinct.

You have to give Greg a little bit of the doubt because it's all thrown on him.

Yeah, Ufologist is.

It's a stupid term and it's nonsense.

If you if you want to investigate phenomenon.

Okay, that's.

I get it.

I understand.

But again, he was coming into it the same flawed way that a lot of people come into these things going, I believe in it.

I'm just trying to prove that I'm right, which is weird, especially with something that is not already, like, a known fact.

Right.

But I want to retract the statement that he was not a scientist, because he was a scientist and he did many other things other than just be a ufologist.

So I want to get that disclaimer out there.

I'm glad you did that.

Okay.

Because it's very relevant to the next person that I'm going to talk about.

Great.

Who is J. Allen Hynek, who most of our listeners will be very familiar with?

Don't know who he is.

You have not heard the name.

Okay, very good.

So he is a prominent Northwestern University astronomer and later a ufologist.

Why adopt that name?

Because he was originally a skeptic, and he transitioned into the leading scientific experts on UFOs.

And he was a consultant with the air Force from 1947 to 1969.

Why, you ask?

Because they brought him in for Project Blue Book.

Okay.

So the government brought him in because he was a scientist.

He was an astronomer.

They wanted his scientific knowledge on this investigation, on this project.

And he came in, worked on Project Sign originally and then continued on through Grudge and then through Blue Book.

He worked on all of these projects, and they brought him in.

A lot of people think, too, like, discount most of these because he's a scientist.

And eventually he saw enough evidence that he changed his mind and actually switched to being a believer.

He believed that these were actual UFOs.

Whether that, you know.

All right, can we pause for a second?

Huh?

So what do we mean?

What.

What are they?

What is he believing in?

Maybe that's the.

Maybe that's the bigger question.

Because believing in unidentified flying objects doesn't necessarily.

You mean you believe in aliens now?

I. I think he believed that they were.

Because I could believe in unidentified flying.

I can believe in things that are not identified.

Right.

That are flying and are objects.

I can believe in unidentified aerial phenomena.

Like, I can understand that there are things that are unidentified.

I can believe they are flying or aerial and they are objects or phenomena.

All those words I can get on board with, like that.

I'm.

Great.

My.

My issue is going aliens, which is what we're talking about.

This astronomer.

What's the name again?

Give me his name.

J. Allen Heineck.

J. Allen Hynek.

Yes.

J. Allen Heineck could go, yeah, I don't know what that is.

Which makes me believe in UFOs now.

I don't think he kept a pretty open mind about it.

I don't think that he was like, they come from.

Yeah, he wasn't going, those are extraterrestrials.

Those are, those are aliens.

Those are little green men.

Like, that's not, I think coming in, he didn't think that it was anything out of the ordinary.

There's plenty of things that happen all the time out of the ordinary.

My, my problem with, you know, with the show is not the fact that there are not strange occurrences.

Right.

My problem is those strange occurrences automatically being attributed to something fantastical that doesn't have a basis in the real world, doesn't have a basis in our reality, in what we know.

My problem is, is when we make the leap of logic to go look at that light in the sky, that's an alien.

And that's all we do.

And that's not what this guy is doing.

This guy is going, I can't explain this.

I don't know what this is.

That makes sense because there's all kinds of things that everybody encounters every day.

Not everybody, every, like not an individual every day, but people encounter every day that they can't explain.

Right?

That's all fine, but you have to, you operate in the real world of what you know.

The problem is when you just go and you skip all the steps and you go, alien.

This guy's not going, aliens.

He's just going, I can't explain this.

I don't know what this is.

I believe that he came into it with a scientific approach and then, you know, was probably very skeptical on everything.

And this man's gonna come up on a lot of topics that we talk about.

He's all over the map.

And I think he just became a little more open minded than most people from the scientific community would and maybe a little more eager to jump into some of these investigations than a lot of people would.

Maybe he didn't care about his reputation as much because we've talked about this before where the scientific community just doesn't want to investigate the paranormal because it makes you look less professional, less scientific, whatever.

And I'm sure that is absolutely a thing because you get labeled as a.

Ufologist and that sounds like, as you labeled this on now the second episode, you don't like the term.

It sounds stupid.

I get it.

It's not the most accurate term.

Maybe it sounds like it's just sounds.

Like UFO and scientists combined, like, yeah,.

You're investigating something unknown.

Yeah, that's fine.

And I'm, I'm great with that.

And I'm great with this guy going, he thought he would come in with all the answers and he didn't have all the answers.

That's perfectly acceptable to happen.

That's okay.

That's not my problem.

And I don't know the continuing story of this gentleman and maybe come back to him and maybe he gets more extreme and me and him will no longer agree.

I don't, I don't think it's going to get to the point where you despise him.

Okay.

But my biggest thing is, and I'll reiterate it, he is not going, I can't explain that must be aliens.

And I can't explain this thing must be Bigfoot.

I can't explain this thing must be ghost.

Because that is the dumbest way of thinking.

I don't think he's going into it that way.

I think he just went from complete skeptic to a little open minded.

I want to be careful with the word skeptic here because there is, there is something that's okay.

I think probably despite what the audience thinks.

Yeah, there is.

No, that's perfectly fine.

Let me, I'm not phrasing that.

I'm not.

Let me rephrase that because I put that badly on you because you claim to be a skeptic and it's not a bad thing.

You don't have to believe in anything.

But J. Allen Hynek came into it probably with very little knowledge, very little understanding, didn't care about it.

He was a scientist, he was an astronomer and the government invited him to come onto these projects.

And so he probably had no thoughts either way.

Right.

But what I'm trying to say is it's okay to walk into a situation and go, I don't know what that is.

Yeah, I can't explain that.

The information that I have at hand, the things that I know, I don't know what that is.

That is perfectly acceptable.

That does not make you a believer.

No, that just makes you go, that's just you admitting, I don't know how that works.

I don't know what that is.

I can't explain that.

Not everything is explainable.

The problem is with a lot of the people in Alien Community, the ghost community, the cryptic community or whatever, they go into it and go, I don't know if it is.

That is definitely an alien.

That's the Problem, that's the issue here.

All my ranting is more about going, we're gonna add this other layer to it.

It's fine for things to be unknown.

The unknown is only scary when you make it scary and you put another story on top of it.

It's fine for things to be unknown.

We're not going to know everything.

There are phenomena, there are things that we can't explain.

That's perfectly fine and reasonable.

Don't make the jump that is way far out there in order to.

For you to confirm your personal beliefs.

That's why I go.

That's why I argue so much and I get so mad about things.

Because instead of us, instead of people going, okay, I don't know what it is, I don't know what it could be.

And accepting that, and then maybe one day we'll figure it out.

People instead go, oh, alien got it.

We've.

We've proved it, baby.

These stories are real.

That's the problem.

Is that your only problem?

Yes, that's my biggest problem with all of it.

Well, if you want to get to the bottom of all of these projects and where they ended up, you might want to start in Roswell.

But we're not going to talk about that today.

Oh, we're saving it.

We're going to save that for a little bit.

But let's talk about another key place.

For an upcoming episode.

Whatever.

All right.

We've already mentioned Wright Patterson Air Force Base.

Yeah, I've been there.

Oh, very nice.

So it's eight miles northeast of Dayton, Ohio, and it is believed by some that the craft and possibly the crew of the ship that crashed in Roswell in 1947 might have been secretly shipped to Dayton, Ohio to Wright Patterson and stored in a NOTORIous Hangar, hangar 18.

Have you heard of hangar 18?

I've heard of hangar 18.

I bet you have.

We'll get to that in a second.

There's a lot of, There's a lot of.

There's a lot of foreshadowing.

Yeah.

There's a lot of teasers.

A crazy.

It's a conspiracy filled episode.

Weird.

Okay, so first we're going to talk about Robert Spencer Carr.

In 1974, he claimed to have sources who witnessed an alien autopsy in hangar 18.

Don't worry, we're not going to talk about that long.

Is that the one that, like, ended up on the Internet?

No, that's not the same one.

That's, that's, that one's fake.

Okay.

Why did he witness it?

Who is he?

Hangar 18. Who is he?

Yes, he's an author.

He wrote a book.

That's not important.

But who else is he?

Why did he have access to it?

That's not important.

We're getting to the good parts here.

We're not worried about that because I.

Worry about the details.

That's just funny.

We're not worried about the details.

We're worried about the serious stuff.

Sure.

It inspired a 1980 film called Hangar 18.

Never heard of it.

And a 1990 Megadeth song.

Oh, this keeps coming up.

I don't know if you noticed.

A lot of music.

There's a lot of music in this.

A lot of music associated with.

So Megadeth has a song called Hangar 18.

Great.

So the Simpsons also reference Hangar 18.

I can never tell when you give me all these, like, pop culture things if you're trying to tell me them to prove the existence or if you just tell me because it's interesting trivia.

Yes.

So Sideshow Bob.

That's a Sideshow Bob episode.

Moving on.

Yeah.

And now where you might have heard about Hangar 18, because I know you are a big Star Trek fan.

Oh.

And so Deep Space Nine had an episode where Quark and Rom and nag.

Sure.

Okay.

So they traveled back in time and they crashed into Mexico.

And after being captured by the military, their shuttle was stored in Hangar 18.

Oddly enough, the director of this episode was James L. Conway, and he directed multiple Star Treks and the movie Hangar 18.

Wow.

This guy really had one thing on his mind.

He was really into Hangar 18.

That's in Star Trek.

It's weird that this guy devoted so much time just talking about a hangar 18.

I mean, maybe that's not his real name.

Maybe his real name is Robert Spencer Carr.

No, that's not a real conspiracy.

I just said that.

So don't nobody take that to heart.

But it could be.

We don't know.

All right, moving on.

What else?

Yeah, so this guy's obsessed with Hangar 18.

He just makes a bunch of stuff on it.

So it's big in pop culture.

It happened.

Well, there maybe one episode of Deep.

Space nine doesn't make it big in.

Popular culture in a movie and a.

Movie that nobody watched because I'm pretty sure nobody watched it.

I have not watched it.

There you go.

By your logic, no one else in the world watched it either.

No, that's just running a reverse.

Let me know if you watched it.

If anybody's watched it, tell Greg that you've watched it and it sucked.

So.

Also nearby is Wright State University.

It's just down the road from the base.

And underneath of the school is a 2 mile underground tunnel system that now allows students and faculty to move between classes without having to deal with the harsh weather.

But it is believed that these tunnels were built to allow the staff of the base to escape in case of a nuclear blast.

Oh, well, didn't think that was coming, did you?

No, but that.

That actually kind of makes sense.

Right?

In a way.

I don't know if a nuclear blast and you're running in tunnels underground if they'll.

Are they lead lined?

Are they?

Or the possibility.

Oh boy.

That they're just the remnants of another abandoned, separate, more secret military facility.

No,.

I mean, I don't know.

I mean, but everything is.

Why is there so many layers to all this nonsense?

Why can't it just be the easiest explainable thing?

Well, why do we have to?

Well, it's funny.

You don't want it to deal with aliens.

Right.

What do you mean?

I mean, this is an Aliens 101 episode, but true.

We could touch on something not alien related.

Oh, okay.

Something terrestrial instead of extraterrestrial.

Yes.

So it's believed that the Arnold House, which was once owned by one of the most famous officers to serve at Wright Patterson, Henry Hap Arnold.

So famous.

So famous.

And the Air Force Museum also on.

Right.

Patterson Air Force Base.

They're extremely haunted.

Again.

That's why I've been to Wright Air Force Base was because of the museum.

Which is haunted.

I didn't see a ghost there.

Why not?

It's haunted.

It's not.

It's believed to be haunted.

Why is it haunted?

Because Air Force Base.

I don't know if we've talked about this before.

Sure.

But places with extreme emotion.

No, don't do that.

And high energy.

What?

Extreme emotion at a museum at an Air Force base.

Cool.

I just thought that was a Cool.

A lot of people don't.

That you might want to touch on something that's not alien related.

Because most people die in the air.

I know.

You're already getting upset about aliens.

I'm not upset about anything.

I'm just exhausted and confused and sad.

Okay, so the ghost didn't cheer me up at all.

If that's what you were trying to do.

I. I tried to cheer you up.

With ghosts.

You knew that wasn't gonna work.

Did I?

You did.

That sounds like a conspiracy to me.

It's not.

It's just facts.

Because you do it all the time.

Go ahead.

All right, so let's get away from Wright Patterson, let's move on.

And we'll go back again to January 8th, 1935.

We're going to go to Tupelo, Mississippi, where Vernon Presley claims to have seen a blue light hovering over their home while his wife Gladys gives birth to the future king of rock and roll, Elvis Presley.

And then later in his life.

Elvis is an alien.

No, but later, he did claim to have a telepathic visit from two space beings when he was 8 and then saw more UFOs hovering over Graceland.

How many pills was he on was this?

Well, he was eight for the first one.

No, when it came to the story,.

He was just born.

When did he tell the story about this?

Later, when he was knee deep in medication.

You don't find that interesting at all?

Nope.

Don't care.

You know, I like to, you know, work in some historical stories.

It's all pop culture stories.

I mean, you don't have any interest in Elvis Presley.

I don't have any interest in Elvis Presley seeing aliens.

Okay, well, fine.

Means nothing to me.

Okay.

Why do I have to believe Elvis Presley?

You don't have to believe anything.

Why.

No, why does.

Why is.

I mean, I get.

I get it.

You're just, you know, you're just throwing stuff out there.

It doesn't prove an interesting fact for fact for our listeners and possibly you.

That you might, you know.

Oh, even.

Even Elvis Presley.

Even the King of Rock and Roll.

Yeah.

Can see aliens.

I don't care about Elvis Presley.

I don't care about anybody who sees in a ufo.

You know what?

A podcaster could see an alien.

Cool.

So one of us could see a UFO or an alien.

What does this have to do with anything?

I'm just saying, anybody could, you know, even the King of Rock and Roll or his dad.

All right, not interested in that.

Okay, so how about the classifications of close encounters with UFOs?

Should we just wrap this up?

Are you just done?

No, I'm listening.

So our good friend, Dr. J. Allen Heineck.

I remember that guy.

Hey, we just talked about him.

Yeah, I told you he was gonna come back up.

You did.

And after a little sidetrack with Elvis and ghosts, we.

We got back to him.

He's back.

He's back, baby.

So he developed the first three Close Encounters.

In the meantime, he was an advisor.

Pop culture reference on the Steven Spielberg.

Classic Close Encounters of the Third.

Bing, bing, bing, bing.

Because he came up with the three original Close Encounters.

Now, could that be evidence that he actually.

No.

Had knowledge of Close Encounters?

We don't know, we don't know.

It was probably gathered by other people's statements.

And I mean, if you want a little bit more to add on to it, you could talk to his son, Joel Heineck, who was a visual effects supervisor and he designed the Predator camouflage, the cloaking effect that they had in the Predator movie.

Okay.

Do you like that?

I don't care.

Could.

I mean.

No.

Could his son have gathered information from Project Blue Book or another secret project?

Is this you connecting these dots or is this already legwork that's been done for you by the community?

Well, I found this information.

In.

In the same party, in the same.

Place, like it's all listed in the official biographies of Jay Allen.

No, my question is in that.

Did it say, was it possible that his son.

Or is this you doing this?

Well, I mean, on the script for Predator, they said, Joel Hynek, shut up.

Use this information that.

I'm asking you a question because I want to know who to be.

I mean, there's no.

I want to be.

I want to know information that says information, period.

Release that.

There's no factual information on this show, period.

I've yet to hear factual.

I mean, why would the government come out and tell you that, that Joel Hynek had this knowledge from his father?

The government didn't say that.

This is what you camouflaged, alien technology.

Why would they come out and say that?

I'm being serious right now.

They're trying to.

I don't like safe.

I don't like this.

I don't like it.

They might be trying to keep you safe.

Being very serious.

I'm being very serious, Andy.

Not podcast related.

I don't like this.

I'm just giving you pop culture references that I know you enjoy.

I'm asking you a simple question.

Is this dots that were connected for.

You were informants on those movies?

Informants?

No, that's not.

He does visual effects.

Yeah, he gets paid to do visual effects.

Not consulting.

He gets paid to do visual effects.

He's not consulting anything they told him.

But could they have had knowledge from somewhere else?

We don't know.

Or did he just come up with a cool idea?

Who?

Why can't people have imagination and come with a cool idea?

Especially when a director and a writer come to you and go, hey, we need to make this predator disappear.

He's a VFX artist.

He has nothing to do with anything else.

I did not say that he had inside information.

I just said he came up with this.

Cutting all this idea, cutting every single Bit of it.

That's factual information.

They worked on those movies.

Not they.

He.

No, Jay.

Allen Heineck worked.

You didn't say that.

You didn't say that post Encounters of the Third Kind.

I'm talking about the Predator movie.

I said his son worked as a visual.

I didn't see Allen Heineck worked on it.

I said Dale Hottie's son worked on it.

The problem is, I was asking about the Predator movie, and you kept going.

And I'm asking you a question.

Are you saying I don't know where.

He came up with that idea?

From his creative brain.

And then he was also told by a director and a writer.

He's a VFX artist.

He is nobody on a movie set.

He just does what he's told.

Yeah, and he came up with a camouflage.

He didn't come up with it.

He was told to do it by the director and the writer.

They didn't tell him how to do it.

He just makes the visual effect.

So back to the point.

J. Allen Hynek came up with the first three classifications of UFO encounters.

Okay, so the first kind, the first close encounter, is a visual sighting.

So just anything within 500ft.

So the most common type of sighting, anything that you see in the sky, could be Kecksburg, could be the Phoenix lights.

Basically, any report of just something in the sky, maybe something landing, like Kecksburg, but basically just the sighting.

Right.

So then the second kind is a little bit more detailed.

It's physical evidence.

So you could have scorch marks, you could have indentations in the ground, electromagnetic readings.

So this would be like the Delphos Ring.

Why is everybody so obsessed with electromagnetic readings?

It could be anything.

I guess that's the problem.

It could be whatever.

Yeah.

Okay, so that is more like Devil's Ring.

Right, you said.

So you got a physical mark left.

We had the glowing lights in a circle.

Right.

Could be something like cattle mutilations, which is commonly associated with UFOs.

Why would they do that to cattle?

Well, if you're familiar with the cattle mutilations that have been reported, they're just completely unexplainable.

There's no blood in the area, but, like, organs could be missing.

Okay, so whatever, you're gonna associate it with something, and I guess it's UFOs, crop circles.

Yeah, mostly those have been all debunked.

So that's great.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Falcon lake incident in 1967.

That was in Canada.

Stefan Michalak reported a craft leaving a scorched pattern after approaching, it emitted a gas that burned his chest and caused temporary illness.

So a little similar to Delphos.

Kind of.

But they're all different.

Why aren't they all the same?

I mean, there's, like, how many.

Here's a question.

How many different godforsaken aliens are showing up here?

Why can't it just be the same?

Why does everybody have to have their own twist on it if you're gonna do it?

I'm really enjoying this episode.

Yeah, because you keep asking questions that I'm gonna answer later.

Great.

But still, I know you're gonna answer that with like, this is all.

The different type of ALIE Would see an alien by now.

I would have seen an alien.

Well, maybe it's meant to mess with your minds.

Maybe.

We appear this way to one person, we appear this way to another person.

Also, everything.

Everything has to have this convenient out.

It's different on purpose.

Well, do you want me to go into another theory?

No, let's say.

Okay, now we go to the third type of site.

No.

What was this?

What was this other theory?

No, we're gonna go on to the third encounter.

We'll come back to theories later.

Theories are held for the end.

We're talking about facts now.

Sure we are.

So the third type of close encounter would include occupants.

Heineck only included the occupants or aliens as beings in or around the ufo, not necessarily interacting or abducting humans.

This is just a sighting of a, like, craft in the sky.

And you can see beings, like, in a window.

We're still on the second one, right?

No, this is third.

That's the third.

Oh, okay.

Because we already had evidence left behind as far as, like, scorch marks or glowing rings.

This is.

I'm seeing a craft, and it has people driving it or something driving it.

We could have any number of examples of sightings with occupants.

I could go on forever.

I would think that Heineck would include abductions with this.

It doesn't sound like it, but it.

Sounds like he kind of stopped there.

But he had to have had knowledge of abduction stories.

Well, he probably was aware of them.

He probably just didn't buy it.

I mean, maybe he discounted them.

Like, I.

Plenty of examples that we could go into of just people seeing craft with entities, But I'm sure we'll kind of move ahead.

There are two more kinds that are popular.

Close encounters that came after him.

Your friend Jacques Valet, who was born in 1939.

He went to the University of Paris and Northwestern University.

He became a Pioneer of the Internet with a computer.

He was a computer scientist, venture capitalist, an author, astronomer, and ufology.

Oh, yeah.

And so he developed the first computerized map of Mars for NASA in 1963.

He's a very important in the figure in the UFO community.

He defended the scientific legitimacy of the extraterrestrial hypothesis, which proposes that some UFOs are best explained as physical spacecraft occupied by intelligent extraterrestrial organisms from other planets, or probes designed by extraterrestrials.

So maybe it doesn't have beings in it, but it's just something to check us out.

So he comes up with the fourth and fifth classifications, the fourth being humans being abducted.

So one of the more famous cases of that is Betty and Barney Hill.

In 1961, in New Hampshire, they were driving home from Niagara Falls, and Betty sees the light in the sky.

They continue to see it moving in the sky for miles, and it finally descends toward their vehicle.

Barney stops the car.

He watches it hover.

And when he steps out of the car, he's using binoculars, and he sees several humanoid figures inside of this ufo.

And they're looking out the windows, and it appears that they're looking straight at Benny and Barney.

This is a story we're going to go into more detail later on.

But it gets closer, and they run back to the car and they drive away.

They both claim to blackout, and when they awaken, they're miles away from where they thought they were.

Under hypnosis, they recall being taken aboard the ship and possible experiments, and they've possibly been shown locations where these beings are from.

Hypnosis?

Yeah.

This is one of the more controversial ones.

Controversial?

It's stupid.

Like it.

You haven't even heard the whole story.

Don't care.

You're gonna tell me that under hypnosis they were able to unlock the mysteries.

Of their mind that were wiped away.

Get out of here.

Stop it.

Pseudoscience with pseudoscience.

It's great.

This kind of goes into the theory that I was talking about before to.

Okay, fine.

Hypnosis is not the most accurate.

It's nothing.

But.

Go ahead.

There's one thought that if you encounter aliens or whatever these beings are, that they have the ability to mask your memory to either change it.

And this is kind of what you were getting wet with the Delphos ring.

Yeah, we talked about it a little bit there.

What's his name?

Ronnie.

Yeah.

Ronnie didn't remember 30 minutes in time.

He lost 30 minutes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so there is the thought that they can either just Blank out your memory or cloak it.

And so maybe you're not seeing what you think you're seeing.

Great.

Which again, could be many of multiple things.

Just another way to complicate it.

Like it's just another layer on top of things that don't.

And of course, if you know you're under hypnosis, you can be led to remember things that you don't actually remember.

There's no, there's no such thing as under hypnosis.

Hypnosis doesn't work.

There is.

It's not, it's not a real thing, but go ahead.

It is a real thing, but the, the inaccuracy of it is that you could be led to remember things that you don't actually remember or doesn't do anything.

Memories for people that are susceptible to suggestion, period.

Hypnosis.

There is no way to put somebody under hypnosis.

It's not a thing.

You can't put a spell on somebody.

It's not real.

Just not real.

And we'll have to test that out, but go ahead.

So on to the fifth and final encounter that we're going to talk about.

Human initiated contact.

So is that where we abduct the aliens?

We're not abducting them, but we go.

Out and we grab them, we take them somewhere.

We put stuff in their butt.

We are initiating.

We put stuff in their butt.

We are causing them.

Putting stuff in our butt.

That's it.

You got it.

Okay, cool.

That's the end of the show.

Go ahead.

So a couple of examples of this.

John Keel talks about it in his Mothman prophecies book where there were not just Mothman sightings, but UFO sightings all over Point Pleasant and the surrounding areas.

And he has a couple encounters where he goes out with a light and flashes signals to the ships and they kind of interact with him and show up based on, you know, his interacting with them.

A more recent example is Dr. Stephen Greer.

He was born in 1955.

He's a retired physician and now a ufologist.

He founded the center for the Study of Extraterrestrial Intelligence, CSETI and the Disclosure Project, which claims to seek the disclosure of alleged classification uf classified UFO information.

He runs the CE5 Close Encounters of the Fifth Kind protocols where he teaches that through specific conscious meditation and meditation techniques, humans can contact extraterrestrials.

He uses this method in certain hot spots and claims that he's recorded thousands of photos and videos of craft that he has reached out to.

So this guy's a full blown idiot.

Is what we're saying controversial?

Controversial.

He's a.

He's a wackadoo.

They're.

He's selling something too, isn't he?

He's selling.

No, he's selling something.

No, he's selling a course.

I'm sure he has a course or something.

You're probably right.

He's selling something.

This is nonsense.

This is up here, up there with.

But I mean, healing.

John Keel also did the same thing and.

No, we're gonna talk about the Mothman problem.

Well, he's.

He's an idiot too, then.

I'm not, I'm not gonna deal with hokey people trying to deceive others.

Snake oil nonsense.

I'm not.

I don't.

I don't have any sympathy for those people.

No, that's fine.

I. I agree with that.

We don't need to be selling as.

Harsh, as harshly as I talk about the other stuff and people believing in aliens or ghosts or whatever.

That's fine.

At the end of the day, you do.

You.

You're allowed to have your opinion on things.

I don't have to like your opinion.

No.

Right.

And then I'm able to express my opinion.

You usually don't.

But you can do what you got to do as soon as you try to profit, profit, you know, make profit off of people that are easily taken advantage of for one reason or the other.

I don't like you.

And I will do my best.

To.

Just, just, just, just pound you into the ground verbally.

And I don't care.

And I don't care what anybody else doesn't think about that either.

I don't care if you're a follower of this jabroni.

No.

And those.

Those last two gross are not necessarily accepted by everyone.

And I'm sure even in the UFO community, it sounds like.

Especially the last one.

It sounds like a weird thing.

And yeah, again, I'm gonna say weirdos and all.

Like that guy's.

It sounds like a. I don't know.

I'm sure he's selling something.

And that's.

That's what I'm.

That's way I'm basing.

Right on.

Right, right.

That sounds so New Agey and nonsense.

Right?

That there are other people that have claimed to have contact and multiple sightings because of meditation and because of this and that.

Yeah.

I just don't.

Not everybody is selling something, so that's fine.

But I. I do agree with that, like you do.

You.

But just don't take advantage of people.

Right, Right.

Right.

So we've got a lot left to cover here.

We've got close encounters to talk about, We've got species to talk about and more Greg rants to get into.

Perfect.

So I think we're going to have to split this into multiple episodes.

This looks like a big two parter.

So I think we will have to pick this up again.

But in the meantime, if you would like to contact us not from outer space, but via Instagram maybe.

Ah, what is that?

That would be no such thing as Yospod.

We have the TikTok old man.

Ancient even.

Yes.

That would be no such thing as Ghost pod.

Was that an ancient aliens joke?

Maybe there.

Oh, and we have Facebook.

No such thing as ghosts.

The Facebook.

The Facebook AOL.

Yes.

Yeah.

No Gmail.

No such thing as Ghostpod.

Gmail.com and visit our website www.no such thing as Ghost show.

Correct.

You can listen all the episodes and you can merchandise.

We got some merchandise.

We got some T shirts.

We got a T shirt and hoodie.

Yep.

That's all we've got right now.

Right now.

We'll add more later.

Yep.

And leave us a rating and review where that you can.

Five stars only because we're reaching for the stars.

Ah, yes.

Reaching toward unknown heights.

We will pick this up next time.

We'll see you then, Sam.